Interview Highlights:

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"I'm here with Grandmaster Jeff Smith, who is a Mile High Karate, Martial Arts Wealth Mastery, and a seven-time world light heavyweight kickboxing champion. Did I get all that right, sir?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Good job."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"We're here in Dallas, Texas and we're at the Martial Arts Wealth Mastery event, and I'm really excited about interviewing Grandmaster Smith."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Thank you."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"I've known you for many years and you've had such an incredible career in martial arts. Can you tell us about when you started and how you got into it and where it went from there?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Well, I started in Texas back in 1964 with Jhoon Rhee, who started in Texas, and one of his black belts had a program at the university in my hometown, Texas A&I University in Kingsville, Texas. I started as a white belt there under him and was able to not just get my white belt from him, but stay with him all the way till he promoted me to ninth degree black belt, which is the highest rank in Taekwondo that you can receive while you're still on this earth. And that was just a few years before he passed."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"What kind of lessons did he teach that stood out to you?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"He was an engineer, so he approached martial arts with a technical and scientific mindset. It was the laws of physics, so not just kick this way, punch this way, but how the angle was to generate more power, and he used a lot of his physics formulas to get this whole system of his. He was very detailed in the martial arts training, and he was one of the first pioneers in the martial arts business. When I joined him in 1970, he had four schools in Washington, DC. I helped grow that to twelve schools over the next three years."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Jhoon Rhee was everywhere in DC. I remember that."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Yes, he was a household name. His commercials featured his kids saying, "Nobody bothers me.” Our phone number was "Call USA-1000." Everyone knew that number."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"That’s amazing. He was an excellent businessman and instructor. You later opened your own schools, correct?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Yes, I ran his schools for twenty-five years and my own for about thirty years in Northern Virginia."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Now, let’s talk about your fighting career. You were a seven-time PKA World Light Heavyweight Champion. What was your most memorable fight?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"The first one. It was 1974, the first World Professional Kickboxing Championships. There was no sanctioned kickboxing in the U.S. then. There were people trying to do kickboxing here and there, but they were just in this building or that building. It wasn't anything with an association and referees and officials that were all sanctioned, like what they consider professional. And so, the first World Professional Kickboxing Championships were in 1974, and there were four weight classes then in point karate, and I was the number one ranked in the light heavy. Joe Lewis was number one in heavy, and Bill Wallace was number one in the middle weight. Howard Jackson was number one in the light weight."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"These are famous names."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"The four of us represented the United States in that first World Championship. They had a team, so they picked one person from each weight class, from Canada, from Mexico, from Japan, from Korea, and from Europe. Those were the teams represented. And then we all found our prospective weight class, and Joe Lewis won his, Bill Wallace won his, I won mine, and Howard Jackson was the only one that didn't win. He lost two Isaiah Stoenius, who was one of David Moon's black belts from Mexico City. I was the number one ranked light heavyweight in point karate, Joe Lewis was number one in heavy, Bill Wallace in middleweight, and Howard Jackson in lightweight. We represented the U.S. against teams from Canada, Mexico, Japan, Korea, and Europe. Three of us won our fights."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Your title fight against Karriem Allah was watched by 50 million viewers. That’s a record for any martial arts event ever, right?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Yes. One year later, Don King was doing his world title fight with Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier called the “Thrilla in Manila,” which was the third fight. It was the important fight for them. So Karriem Allah was from New York City. He was one of Ali's sparring partners, and Don King wanted to do a heavyweight world title fight. So, Joe Lewis was supposed to fight him, but four weeks before the fight, Joe already had a scheduled fight with Ross Scott. Joe dislocated his shoulder in the second round, and Ross Scott proceeded to beat the heck out of him. He was pounding him with his kicks and everything. He didn't knock Joe out, but he beat him up pretty good. They didn't want to put Ross in because that was one of his first fights. Nobody knew who he was yet. So when they called Joe, he said, "You should get Jeff." And they said, "Well, isn't he a light heavyweight?" He said, "Yeah, but they do that in boxing. They have a light heavyweight versus heavyweight, and they're both world champions. It makes for a much better fight because people know who he is." Sure enough, they called Jhoon Rhee, and we ended up doing the fight."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"But you were fighting upper class?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"He was about forty or fifty pounds above me. I was 175 pounds then, and he was about 220. He was about 6'2” or 6’3. I'm 5'11, so he had a little height and a little weight on me, but my first instructor was one of Jhoon Rhee black belts, Bruce Turner, and he was 6'5, 250 pounds. That's who I sparred with all the time. So I was used to sparring big guys, and I wasn't intimidated too much. I said, "Sure, I'll fight him." It was the first time we ever went eleven rounds. We had been fighting nine rounds for world titles, but they didn't want to do nine rounds because boxing was twelve rounds. They wanted at least eleven, so we did an eleven-round fight, and I won. It was a unanimous decision with Dom King's judges. "

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Yeah, I'm hearing that the expectation, if it was in the middle, that it would've been in the other guy's favor."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"If it was close, I would not have won. The fight is even on YouTube, so anybody that's reading this or listening to this can definitely just go on YouTube and put in World Champion Grand Master Jeff Smith. The fight with Karriem will come up and some of my other ones also. It's still 50 million people because it was closed circuit worldwide. They had a hundred countries showing this stuff. Don King had all these connections, and that was back before HBO and pay-per-view. Because it was closed circuit TV, they would set up these big screens in racetracks, in bowling alleys, in auditoriums, and at high schools and bars and everywhere that would show closed circuit type of fighting. It still holds a record for the largest viewing audience of a martial arts fight."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"You trained around legends like Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, and even Bruce Lee. What was that like?You trained around legends like Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, and even Bruce Lee. What was that like?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"I never fought Chuck or Joe because they retired from point fighting when I got my black belt in '69. I did compete against Bill Wallace in point fighting. I trained with Joe Lewis a lot, but we never fought because we were in two separate weight classes then. Jhoon Rhee and Bruce Lee were best friends, so I got to train with Bruce on multiple occasions. He was incredibly fast and skillful. Bruce would come to Washington DC to train and visit with Jhoon Rhee several times a year. Jhoon Rhee had his big national tournament. Bruce would always come and be his guest for that. I had the opportunity to work out with them together, just the three of us, and have dinner at Master Rhee's house on numerous occasions. It was quite interesting to work with Bruce Lee. People ask me all the time, "Well, was he that good?" Even though I never sparred with him—it him just demonstrating stuff with me—he was super-fast. But sometimes it’s hard to say, oh, he would've been a world champion, or he would've been this or that without actually doing it. But as fast as he was and as strong as he was, and the things that he could do, he was quite impressive as people could see on the screen. Not always does that translate into application, but if anybody could have done it, it was him."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"That’s incredible. You’ve worked with many world-class fighters, including the U.S. Karate Team. Didn’t you coach them?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Yes, I coached the WAKO team, which was the first international sanctioning body. They had a hundred countries competing in the world championship. Mike Anderson and Georg Brueckner were instrumental in forming WAKO. Mike, a black belt under Jhoon Rhee, was stationed in Berlin, where he trained with Georg. He wanted to bring a U.S. team over to compete. The first U.S. team included me, Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, Howard Jackson, and Jim Butin. We fought against about ten different European teams. At that competition, Joe talked to Mike about starting a kickboxing sanctioning body, and Georg proposed an international association. That's how WAKO was born, incorporating point fighting, continuous fighting, and full contact."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"I didn’t know that."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"From 1980 to 1990, I coached our U.S. team. We won every world championship in that ten-year span. These were held every other year, like the Olympics. The first time we competed, we didn’t know they had multiple divisions, so I only brought six guys. They did point fighting, continuous fighting, and full contact."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"They ran three separate tournaments?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Yes. Other countries had about thirty members because they had separate teams for each division. My guys would fight in a full contact match, then run to another ring for point fighting, and then to another for continuous. Even with just six competitors, we won the world title based on total medals, like the Olympics. The next year, we expanded, including women like Linda Denley and Helen Chung. Helen won the point fighting world championship, and Linda did as well. We also lobbied for forms competition. John Chung and Charlie Lee, who were dominating U.S. tournaments, competed, and we won in forms too. Our women excelled in all divisions, helping us retain the championship title."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"This was the foundation for modern tournament formats—point sparring, forms, and other martial arts events."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Yes. Originally, tournaments had just sparring and forms. Then they expanded to continuous fighting, where matches didn’t stop for points but were tracked throughout. Fighters got penalized for excessive contact, but they disliked losing because of knockouts. That led to full contact competition."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Did it evolve from point sparring and forms into more contact-based sparring, then back to a mix of point sparring, forms, and sometimes weapons?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Exactly. Initially, there was only one forms division where men and women competed together. Then they added weapons and split styles—Korean, Chinese, and Japanese. Later, Jhoon Rhee pioneered musical forms, leading to creative divisions. Over time, many new divisions emerged."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"That sounds complex. Speaking of change, since you’ve been deeply involved in martial arts, what do you think are the most significant shifts over the years?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Well, now things are more specialized. We have traditional point tournaments, like Olympic Taekwondo, and the American Tournament Circuit, where different styles compete with separate divisions before a grand championship. Then there’s kickboxing. The first sanctioning body for kickboxing was the PKA, led by Joe Corley. We restarted sanctioning fights and hosting bouts about two years ago."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"That's exciting that the PKA started that."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"PKA was the original. It's different than the type of kickboxing and MMA stuff you see now. It's really expanded into a lot of divisions, and that way you get to pick the style or the type of fighting that you want to do. The PKA was different from modern kickboxing and MMA. In PKA, there were no kicks below the belt. Traditional kickboxing allows leg kicks, Muay Thai incorporates knees and elbows, and MMA includes ground fighting. This expansion created different styles for fighters. American tournament-style competitions combine various disciplines under one set of rules. The PKA's no leg kicks rule stemmed from boxing’s role as a sanctioning body. Karate hadn’t been involved in full-contact fighting, so states refused to sanction it. That’s why the UFC had difficulty getting approved, with its first event in Denver, Colorado."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Right. I remember that."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"The no-contact-below-the-belt rule made fights more exciting—fighters used spinning kicks, jump kicks, and knockouts with spectacular techniques. The rule actually allowed for a much more exciting fight style of fighting because you see all these kicks and jump kicks and turning kicks and double kicks and people getting knocked out with all these flashy kicks, which was the most spectacular for most of the audience. Even today, old PKA fight reels from the ‘70s are amazing."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"People should look up PKA fights on YouTube—they’ll see incredible highlights."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"This is fifty years that we're going back. You go back fifty years, and you would think it would look like cavemen, right? Because you go back fifty years in basketball, you go back fifty years in football, lots of changes. They never used to have the forward pass or the slam dunk. It makes it a lot more spectacular. So that's what we felt that was allowing the more spectacular fights. Those fights were more exciting than some modern ones. There were more kick knockouts, unlike today, where fights often end in grappling. "

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Well, one of the reasons that you get the Go2 Karate Lifetime Recognition Award is your success in martial arts, which is massive, but also in business. A lot of people don't have that. Some of the legends that you mentioned don't have, other than Jhoon Rhee of course, don't have that balance or that excellence in both areas."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"I studied business in college, then applied that knowledge while working with Jhoon Rhee. He was sharp with his business systems, and together we applied his whole system and were able to expand it. It was a real learning process for me, and I knew someday I wanted to have my own schools. As soon as his kids were old enough to take his schools over, that's when I left and moved on and did my own schools."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Now you're helping martial arts schools nationwide through Martial Arts Wealth Mastery and Mile High Karate system. You help a ton of schools all over the country. In fact, that's why we're here in Dallas. Can you tell me about that?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"The Martial Arts Wealth Mastery Group is designed to teach schools how to become a black belt in business. Stephen Oliver, who was also one of our Jhoon Rhee black belts, and I, and a guy by the name of Chief Master Dr. Greg Moody, Go2 Karate Magazine. Martial Arts Wealth Mastery teaches schools how to become black belts in business. Many schools struggled during the pandemic, with half going out of business and others barely surviving. Our members thrived because we adapted quickly. Stephen Oliver and I implemented online training, belt tests, enrollments, and marketing strategies tailored for the pandemic. Some of our schools made record profits during that time."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Right, some schools made over $100,000 per month, even when others were failing."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Most schools only used Zoom for classes. We did everything—intros, enrollments, renewals, and belt tests—online. We also utilized outdoor training. Our marketing pivoted completely since in-person events weren’t an option. Our experience in internet marketing gave us a huge advantage."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"We also made sure they were doing marketing that was effective during that time. They were getting record numbers of new members, even though their friend down the street was getting nothing or shutting down."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Our marketing before pandemic was completely different than our marketing during the pandemic, and that's why most schools didn't turn 180 degrees and learn how to do the other type of marketing because during the pandemic, we couldn't benefit from live events and movie theaters or school programs or things that had to do with mixing with the public. They were only getting these leads and stuff from the internet. Fortunately for us, Stephen Oliver wrote the first book on internet marketing in 2000. Now that was twenty-five years ago. We had an advantage over everybody else when it came to internet marketing. "

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"And post-pandemic, you’re still helping schools double, triple, or even quadruple revenue."

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Exactly. We teach school owners to follow a structured system. Just like earning a black belt takes years of consistent training, building a million-dollar school requires continuous learning and mentorship. Our members copy successful schools' strategies, leading to massive growth. Most martial arts schools around the US are not making much money because most of them haven't ever made any money. They were taught by these grand masters whose only goal was to teach good black belts, and they didn't know anything about business. Half of them had to have a part-time job to be able to do it because they never knew how to turn it into a business. Once you turn it into the business and kept the quality of the instruction, that's the key. You have to have both of those. "

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Any final advice for martial artists?"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"If you own a school and want to grow, reach out to us. Call Bob Dunn at 720-256-0208 to schedule an evaluation. Most new members double or triple their revenue within a year. We help schools run profitably while maintaining high-quality instruction."

Dr. Greg Moody, Chief Master, Go2 Karate Magazine:
"Thank you, Grandmaster Grand Master Jeff Smith, and congratulations on your Go2 Karate Lifetime Recognition Award!"

Grand Master Jeff Smith:
"Thank you!"